Loomio
Sat 4 Jan 2025 2:47AM

Revisions to our dangerous projects and tools policy

FB Fletcher Boyd Public Seen by 11

When attendees want to work on a project in the space that may cause harm it's covered under our dangerous projects and tools policy. While this policy is probably fit for purpose for electrical projects it falls short in other areas:

  • The no weapons clause unnecessarily limits some projects that may be safe and doesn't meaningfully define a weapon
  • The expectations set out for categories other than electrical are unclear or not present
  • Things like very low powered lasers are needlessly restricted
  • The policy mentioned dangerous tools, this is now covered under our training policy

We've drafted a replacement policy that I feel addresses these issues and allows for greater flexibility in the workshop.

We're at the stage now where feedback from members would be useful. Any thoughts?

FB

Fletcher Boyd Sat 4 Jan 2025 2:48AM

It's worth noting that a later part of this plan may include gating projects covered under this proposal to members.

FB

Poll Created Sat 4 Jan 2025 3:04AM

Does the draft dangerous projects policy make sense? Closed Sat 18 Jan 2025 11:39AM

Outcome
by Fletcher Boyd Sat 18 Jan 2025 11:40AM

Consensus has largely been achieved, policy will go through final polishing and then tabled for Management Committee consideration.

Results

Results Option % of voters Voters
Looks good 100% 3 JC LY FB
Not sure yet 0% 0  
Concerned 0% 0  
Undecided 0% 0  

3 of 3 people have voted (100%)

JC

Johannes Chuah
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_check_options.Looks good">Looks Good</span>
Sat 4 Jan 2025 3:30AM

This is good.

LY

Lewis Yip
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_check_options.Looks good">Looks Good</span>
Mon 6 Jan 2025 8:46AM

I'm happy with the draft policy + the comments to date.

FB

Fletcher Boyd
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_check_options.Looks good">Looks Good</span>
Mon 6 Jan 2025 9:47AM

Supporting as author _^

FB

Fletcher Boyd Sat 4 Jan 2025 3:06AM

The mindset here is that instead of being absolutely prescriptive regarding the types of controls that should be in place we leave that open. This allows us the flexibility to be prescriptive when required and more relaxed when it's appropriate.

JP

John "Cheshire" Parker Sat 4 Jan 2025 3:17AM

From past experience with "maker" groups. do we want to restrict "Drug paraphernalia" as well as drugs? Eg. bongs, nitrous oxide inhalers, pipes. Not technically illegal, but the optics aren't great.

FB

Fletcher Boyd Sat 4 Jan 2025 4:38AM

@John "Cheshire" Parker Good point, lets amend it to drugs and drug paraphernalia.

PW

Penny Wood Sat 4 Jan 2025 5:29AM

Chemicals: This probably is included in "Substances with the ability to cause harm" however I would suggest specifically including:

  • Concentrated acids, bases, and oxidizing agents. This includes but is not limited to: sodium hydroxide, concentrated hydrochloric and sulfuric acid, potassium permanganate, chlorine gas.

  • Toxic substances, including heavy metals such as mercury

Some of these have legitimate uses, but you'd really want approval first, and some just shouldn't be done in this setting.

Also please include somewhere:

  • Cutting or machining processes likely to form fine dusts, such as cutting or grinding silica or asbestos products.

Really machining silica products is a very bad idea, and OFC asbestos is right out.

FB

Fletcher Boyd Sat 4 Jan 2025 5:53AM

Changes:

> Add `material containing asbestos` to the prohibited list

> Rename `Chemical` to `Chemical/Material`

> Add `Concentrated acids, bases, and oxidizing agents. This includes but is not limited to: sodium hydroxide, concentrated hydrochloric and sulfuric acid, potassium permanganate, chlorine gas.` as a subset of `substances withthe ability to cause harm`

> Add `Toxic substances, including heavy metals such as mercury` as a subset of `substances with the ability to cause harm`

I've left off the cutting/machining processes as that is covered under our tool usage guidelines rather than the project itself.

Item removed

LP

Lewis Peaty Sat 4 Jan 2025 1:45PM

Looking at the temperature section:
- For solids, could activities like ironing (e.g. heat transfer vinyl), or cooking break the 200°C limit? Raising it to 250°C might avoid some potential quibbles.
- 100°C for liquids sounds good, this allows for boiling water.
- The lower limits also seem good. Is there some thinking behind the values of -20°C and -50°C?

FB

Fletcher Boyd Sat 4 Jan 2025 2:39PM

For the lower limits its largely just personal experience where things start to stick.

Using a commercially produced iron wouldnt be within the scope of this policy as its a tool and not a project. If you're creating your own iron that hits 200C the intention is that it would be reviewed.

SM

Sophie Murday Sat 4 Jan 2025 11:02PM

I think clarifying the difference between dangerous project and safe use of tools is probably a good idea. I.e reflow oven gets hot - building your own reflow oven is a nope, but using our reflow oven to reflow a pcb - yes

FB

Fletcher Boyd Sun 5 Jan 2025 5:35AM

Added note to top of policy

> This policy only covers projects you work on in our workshop. Tool use is covered under our Training policy

Also adjusted battery welding line to remove the mention of a specific tool.

SM

Sophie Murday Sat 4 Jan 2025 11:05PM

A specific mention of how to safely use and or store lipo batteries may be useful as well.

FB

Fletcher Boyd Sun 5 Jan 2025 5:37AM

Added lipo batteries to Electrical. This policy specifically does not provide safety recommendations so this should be enough to trigger a conversation with the committee.

FB

Fletcher Boyd Sat 11 Jan 2025 7:54AM

LY

Lewis Yip Mon 17 Feb 2025 1:12PM

The new Dangerous Projects policy is now live on the wiki.

We have an outstanding action item from our 2025-02-15 meeting to add a record keeping requirement.

I propose to add the following text:

Record keeping

Approved dangerous projects must be recorded in a place that is visible to all committee members and delegated approvers (e.g. a Slack channel.)

The record must include -

  • What the dangerous project is, and who is doing it.

  • Who has approved the dangerous project.

  • Details of relevant risk assessments.

  • Details of agreed risk control measures.

LY

Poll Created Mon 17 Feb 2025 1:14PM

Add the proposed Record Keeping requirements section to the Dangerous Projects policy. Closed Sat 22 Feb 2025 1:02PM

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 100.0% 6 TM JC BC LY FB RC
Abstain 0.0% 0  
Disagree 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 1 JR

6 of 7 people have voted (85%)